tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7476836446638612873.post1312109756001839792..comments2024-03-27T02:30:04.482-05:00Comments on Carnegie: Magic Detective: New Twists on Houdini's Russian TourCarnegiehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10142955905272650610noreply@blogger.comBlogger20125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7476836446638612873.post-20945437335364923012015-12-30T03:26:49.136-06:002015-12-30T03:26:49.136-06:00Mark, I would like to contact you in regards to yo...Mark, I would like to contact you in regards to your grandfather. I can be reached at bradjeffers@yahoo.comBrad Jeffershttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16557824426770392421noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7476836446638612873.post-68832966032301974032015-11-27T01:41:20.741-06:002015-11-27T01:41:20.741-06:00I am Mark MacDougall , Mickeys grandson , some how...I am Mark MacDougall , Mickeys grandson , some how stumbled across this...any questions ??Mark MacDougallnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7476836446638612873.post-33293995645699989352015-01-09T00:44:14.936-06:002015-01-09T00:44:14.936-06:00It was a beneficial workout for me to go through y...It was a beneficial workout for me to go through your webpage. It definitely stretches the limits with the mind when you go through very good info and make an effort to interpret it properly. I am going to glance up this web site usually on my PC. Thanks for sharing.bestairriflereviewhttp://www.bestairriflereview.net/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7476836446638612873.post-45222915029931678872014-04-23T22:11:21.364-05:002014-04-23T22:11:21.364-05:00Here is Welles account of the event ... [url]https...Here is Welles account of the event ... [url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qaooTLg2k-M#t=236[/url] <br />In this version he has Bess as the one who shoots the bell with an "air rifle".<br /><br />As to the person, who in regards to Mickey MacDougall, wrote "...he was mostly not a writer but probably lucked out to get this column in a few papers." ...<br /><br />Mickey MacDougall's weekly column "The Inside Straight" was in syndication for 18 years (1948 - 1966) and was carried by over 200 newspapers.<br /><br />In addition, MacDougall wrote numerous magazine articles for such publications as "Liberty", "Life", "Look", "Cosmopolitan" , "True", "Argosy", "Esquire", "Collier's", "The American Weekly" and many others.<br /><br />Add to this, the seven books which he authored and you have one of Magic's most prolific writers.<br /><br />As to the veracity of the accounts, whether told by Welles or by MacDougall, I have my doubts. It seems like an apocryphal tale to me.<br /><br />It should be noted that in 1969 at Rosoff's Restaurant in New York City, MacDougall related the same story to his fellow diners, only this time it was not Houdini performing the trick. In this rendition, the trick was performed by Horace Goldin and the year was 1906. ("M-U-M"magazine, August 1969)<br /><br /><br /><br />Brad Jeffershttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18397865699596743700noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7476836446638612873.post-55829101221869815402012-06-07T15:20:27.287-05:002012-06-07T15:20:27.287-05:00Wow, can't believe I just ran across this fasc...Wow, can't believe I just ran across this fascinating thread. Always late to the party! <br /><br />
Been researching this period in Houdini's life, including in the Russian newspapers (there's a complete set from 1903 at Columbia). No mention of bell ringing.<br /><br />
However!... If we are to believe Orson Welles (and he'd be the first person to say we shouldn't) the bell ringing occurred in a SECOND Houdini visit to Russia, while Rasputin was present! I have seen a letter showing Houdini indeed planned such a trip, but can find no evidence (yet) that it took place. Still pursuing this.<br /><br />
About the Sergeis: SA and his wife Ella were big fans of Houdini's, and they're the ones who presented him with the Faberge ladle. They had a palace in St. Petersburg, on Anichkov Square, in addition to the official residence in Moscow. Also a little two thousand acre country place at Illinskoie on the Moscow River. <br /><br />
The Kleinmichel Palace, in St. Petersburg, belonged to Countess Kleinmichel, and was just borrowed by Sergei for the occasion of Houdini's first big command performance. This was fairly common back then.<br /><br />
SM was a childhood pal if Tsar Nicholas, and he looked after Nicholas' pre-Alexandra girlfriend, a famous ballerina. As far as I know, there was no connection between him and Houdini. He has been associated with an infamous sex scandal involving a prince (not a princess) but that's beyond the scope of this blog, right?DAVID SALTMANhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06270760638995836991noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7476836446638612873.post-90928306806504058432012-06-07T14:05:41.027-05:002012-06-07T14:05:41.027-05:00This comment has been removed by the author.DAVID SALTMANhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06270760638995836991noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7476836446638612873.post-22684754919305212932012-03-23T12:34:44.417-05:002012-03-23T12:34:44.417-05:00Steven,
Wow, excellent points! I'm away from a...Steven,<br />Wow, excellent points! I'm away from all the research stuff, but just going on memory, I believe Houdini said that he did not reveal he was Jewish when he first got to Russia. But according to one newspaper report, he did bring up the issue while in Russia! <br /><br />My big issue with the whole thing are the different versions of the story and the different characters involved. It could well be that Houdini made the whole thing up. OR it could be that friends of his, after his death, like Orson Welles, Michael MacDougall and others helped to embellish the story. Then again, it could very well be true, but overtime the names were confused. It's hard to know without some sort of Russian documentation, like newspaper accounts, IF those things even exist.Carnegiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10142955905272650610noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7476836446638612873.post-69258420646877309242012-03-17T16:57:32.911-05:002012-03-17T16:57:32.911-05:00Hmm. That's true. Though I'd assumed that ...Hmm. That's true. Though I'd assumed that Houdini hadn't declared himself as Jewish during his trip to Russia. As a Jew he wouldn't have even been allowed to sleep overnight it Moscow, and probably not perform onstage at the Yar either. As well, if memory serves (it was in either the Kalush bio or the Silverman bio) Houdini taught the GDS Elisabeth the second sight code. GD Sergius Mikhailovich was unmarried (and engaged in a lifelong affair with his brother's wife). Either way, the Kleinmichel Palace, while in St. Petersburg, wasn't the residence of GD Sergius Mikhailovich (he lived in the New Michael Palace).<br /><br />One reason I think the location is significant is that if the bell-ringing didn't take place in Moscow, with the Kremlin bells (which could not physically ring) then the whole story is likely apocryphal. It's not much of a trick to ring bells that regularly ring.<br /><br />This is probably one question that can be answered, in that we know approximately when this took place, and through letters the movements of most of the Imperial family can be tracked. Particularly if the Czar was present. I'm going to follow up on this with a pre-revolution Russian scholar. <br /><br />This may seem like nit-picking, but I think it's a significant fact to clarify. If it was in fact GD Serguis Alexandrovich then it seems apparent that either Houdini didn't declare himself as Jewish on the entrance papers, or his entry into Russia had been arranged by John Wilkie, William Melville or one of their colleagues through Harry Day. Melville and his contemporaries would have routinely cooperated with the Ohkrana on matters related to anarchists, who had killed a previous Czar, assassinated President McKinley two years earlier, made numerous attempts on the life of Queen Victoria, and would kill GD SA two years later.<br /><br />Thanks!Steven Gallowayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04788687688011691993noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7476836446638612873.post-67914978901862434212012-03-17T14:01:39.447-05:002012-03-17T14:01:39.447-05:00Apparently, Jewish people were banned from working...Apparently, Jewish people were banned from working in Moscow without some sort of special permission. The GD in Moscow was very anti-semtic. But the opposite was true of the Grand Duke in St. Petersberg.Carnegiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10142955905272650610noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7476836446638612873.post-44079990126039020492012-03-15T12:56:32.512-05:002012-03-15T12:56:32.512-05:00Great article! Question: why do you think H presen...Great article! Question: why do you think H presented the Kremlin bells trick for GD Sergius Mikhailovich and not GD Sergius Alexandrovich? I've assumed that given that the Kremlin is in Moscow, and GD SA was the governor of Moscow, that the error in the Kalush bio and the sources used was simply in the name of the palace. GD SA would certainly have had a residence within earshot of the Kremlin bells (he was blown to pieces in 1905 on his way there). Just curious as to your reasoning, as it's possible I've overlooked a key detail.Steven Gallowayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04788687688011691993noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7476836446638612873.post-43945998353185220742012-03-13T09:11:59.344-05:002012-03-13T09:11:59.344-05:00Dick & Dorothy,
I think you hit it on the head...Dick & Dorothy,<br />I think you hit it on the head. 'HOUDINI would have been aware that news in Russia was hard to come by and used it to his advantage'. <br /><br />The date is from magicpedia, and I know the guy who runs it and he is an excellent researcher.Carnegiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10142955905272650610noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7476836446638612873.post-1169414251370983502012-03-13T02:39:03.326-05:002012-03-13T02:39:03.326-05:001906 would have placed Mickey in the right time zo...1906 would have placed Mickey in the right time zone. Where did you find his date of birth?<br /><br />Keep it up. Wherever all this goes it is all interesting stuff. News from inside Russia was hard to come by. Houdini would have been aware of this and could have tried to use it to his advantage.<br /><br />Dick & DorothyHoudini Museumhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04310452776858134825noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7476836446638612873.post-46821090473366277072012-03-12T13:35:44.428-05:002012-03-12T13:35:44.428-05:00According to information I found out, he was born ...According to information I found out, he was born in 1906, which would mean he was very much alive though young, during Houdini's time. His Russia story is not too different from the Orson Welles version of same story. All the stories of the Bell Ringing I could find are similar but some say it happened in Moscow, others in St. Petersburg. Frankly, the St. Petersburg story rings a little truer than the others due to the fact the Grand Duke Sergius in St Petersburg was friendly to Jews, while the Grand Duke Sergius of Moscow was not. The only thing that sounds unusual really is the Bullet Catch, but we are discovering more and more instances of Houdini having presented it, so even that could be true. I have issues too with single source claims, but much of this made sense. I'm still researching Houdini's Russian visit, so I may yet turn out additional articles.Carnegiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10142955905272650610noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7476836446638612873.post-84568186006805291452012-03-12T10:29:23.162-05:002012-03-12T10:29:23.162-05:00Surprised most are not familiar with Mickey MacDou...Surprised most are not familiar with Mickey MacDougall. He was mostly not a writer or historian, but probably lucked out to get this column in a few papers. He probably never met Houdini, as Houdini would have died before his time. I would not trust his Houdini stories unless you have newspaper stories to back it up or other definitive evidence. <br /> <br />He was mostly a local NYC card magic guy who gravitated to claiming to be a gambling expert as several card workers have done. He called himself a Card Detective and did club dates. Probably knew Frank Garcia. Kind of like John Scarne, but not as successful. <br /><br />He wrote books as well as contributed to others.<br />Greater Magic The Four Aces reappearance in poker deal 1938<br /><br />Don't be a Sucker! (1939) MacDougall, Mickey<br /><br />Gamblers Don't Gamble (1939) MacDougall, Mickey<br /><br />Mickey MacDougall Addition Prediction involving 5x5 matrix 34 <br />Tarbell Course in Magic - Volume 7 1972 Lesson-84-34 Addition Prediction: 5x5 math grid Mentalism Mickey MacDougall's Presentation<br /><br />Card Mastery, Including Erdnase's "Expert At The Card Table" ©1944 Circle Magic Shop, NY<br />Reprinted ©1975 D. Robbins & Co., Inc. MacDougall, Michael: <br /><br />Micky's Trio<br />© Magic Inc. <br />Micky Offers His Perfect Poker Deal: performer gets winning hand four times in a row
.<br />Micky Offers His Trick of the Ages: dates selected by audience divined by the cards.<br />Micky Offers His Mysterious Mental Marvels: mentally selected card divulged
.<br />Micky's Work on the Mexican Turnover<br /><br />I will try to find out more.<br /><br />Dick Brookz & Dorothy DietrichHoudini Museumhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04310452776858134825noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7476836446638612873.post-65717138299422879472012-03-10T19:08:52.202-06:002012-03-10T19:08:52.202-06:00I wonder where he found the time to do all his SPY...I wonder where he found the time to do all his SPY WORK! :pJohn Coxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04391313393222271260noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7476836446638612873.post-4138800833890197922012-03-10T16:51:12.647-06:002012-03-10T16:51:12.647-06:00Very interesting stuff. Thanks!Very interesting stuff. Thanks!dcbyronhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02840304483560716664noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7476836446638612873.post-71616763466133607852012-03-10T14:45:47.181-06:002012-03-10T14:45:47.181-06:00I actually looked for other columns he wrote just ...I actually looked for other columns he wrote just to be sure he didn't write a column of fictional stories. But other issues of The Inside Straight dealt mostly with gambling and cheating techniques,and as I mentioned I found one related to the life stories of some magicians.Carnegiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10142955905272650610noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7476836446638612873.post-72244096865278669882012-03-10T14:44:06.903-06:002012-03-10T14:44:06.903-06:00Omaha World Herald Magazine is where I found the I...Omaha World Herald Magazine is where I found the Inside Straight column, but it appears to have been a syndicated column and appeared in numerous periodicals. The information from the Kalush book is from the Chapter called "Taming the Bear" pg 137-138.Carnegiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10142955905272650610noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7476836446638612873.post-11121948190529806262012-03-10T14:36:47.590-06:002012-03-10T14:36:47.590-06:00Citations for these sources would be great. For ex...Citations for these sources would be great. For example, for MacDougall's article "The Inside Straight". Where did it appear on April 18, 1954?dcbyronhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02840304483560716664noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7476836446638612873.post-31479184748776023692012-03-10T13:04:47.530-06:002012-03-10T13:04:47.530-06:00Wow, wow, wow. A bullet catch in Russia? Never hea...Wow, wow, wow. A bullet catch in Russia? Never heard this before. I also don't remember reading about the bell ringing trick in Kalush, so this all feels new to me. Great stuff, Dean. Thanks.John Coxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04391313393222271260noreply@blogger.com